Any good alternatives to Wine.Woot
4I've been thinking of posting this over in the Questions section of Deals.Woot, but knowing the lack of sense of humor over there, I figure the thread would last about 10 minutes before the mods stomped on it like a lame cockroach when the lights come on.
Anyway, for those three of you who don't know WTH is going on, let me explain. When @Snapster (aka Our Fearless Leader) started Wine.Woot (I think it was the third site, after Sellout) they usually shipped everywhere that one could ship. Since the booze came from the winery, there were some offerings that were unavailable in some states, but generally those were the exceptions, and it remained this way until September.
Exactly what happened I'm not sure, and I have yet to get a straight answer, but it had something to do with some bureaucrat in New York. Wine.Woot then stopped shipping to all but 6 states. They have slowly added back some, including New York, the jerkfaces that started this mess. Unfortunately, Georgia is not on this list, and (it appears) isn't coming back anytime soon. So, I have to go elsewhere for my wine fix.
Does anybody know of anything similar? I have been to Wines Till Sold Out, and have even bought from them, but they lack the discussion on Wine.Woot.
Kinda bummed here..
- 11 comments, 9 replies
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Ah the wine industry. So enticing for entrepreneurs to try and disrupt and yet so difficult to make the economics work anywhere but local retail.
The current profitable online models are all based on the classic 3-tier distribution model with the retailer bending as many rules as possible to ship wine across state lines.
Wine.woot with its partnership with Wine Country Connect operates in the "producer direct" model. This model is classic disintermediation and even has a possible legal edge stemming from the 2005 supreme court reciprocality decision. However, two things have amazed me. 1. states apparently have a ton more leeway in timeline and interpretation of the court decision and 2. the market segment of higher price point (>$8 bottle) wine selling online is depressingly small and has been far slower to ramp than anyone expected.
For me it's extremely hard to justify recommending a 3-tier retailer bending rules to ship wine and I've yet to become enamored with other producer-direct models skating by under the radar. Current state legislation attempts like you mention inhibit bright-line legal understanding which would clear the way for investment and innovation.
I might see if some industry folks would be interested in discussion here, but this being an open forum probably presents some challenge for on-the-record discussion (given both commercial relationships that might be damaged and legal interpretations that might be challenged).
To clarify, Wine.woot was the very first dot-woot thank you very much and first to market in the producer direct concept. a disruption in the industry still reverberating. Something i'm personally very proud of. i empathize more than you know on the frustration in limiting the states list particularly as we see 3 tier retailers skirting. But we need to keep up the hope of more coming (including GA). i mostly agree with Snapster's comments, but within the industry, and looking at the 7 year track record (pre-state limitation, pre-elimination of labrat program), w.w is viewed, i have to think, as an innovation and by and large a wine industry success. that's my story and i'm sticking to it!
Dave, I really enjoyed the excitement we had launching the site years ago. Just recently dusted off my last '06 Monkey Prize. Meh...
Don't know if this is helpful to you. Or not what you're looking for at all. Have found that winechateau.com has good buys. Some w/free shipping on cases. No forum to discuss the wine. <----This doesn't bother me, since I'm not one who needs/understands all the nuances discussed on wine.woot. IOW, I do not have refined tastes & expectations.
Let me tip my hat to @snapster and @winedavid49 for coming in and adding their thoughts to my semi rant. I also stand corrected as wine.woot was the first addition to the now probably overly large Woot family.
I'm somewhat at a loss also as to why the higher end wine market hasn't done better online than it has. I do understand why states have not done much to implement higher court decisions regarding wine shipments: think Deep Throat and follow the money. The middlemen are giving huge amounts of money to state representatives and state senators to keep things as they are. I understand why they do this, but ultimately it hurts the consumer and everybody knows it (another reason in my already full bag to join the "thrown them all out on their asses" movement). The ability of these distributors to use the law to screw money out of the public is pretty well documented, all one has to do is look at the (put very generously) byzantine laws in Pennsylvania to see this.
In either event, I'm still looking for some alternative, but don't think I'm going to find it. I do miss the discussions, particularly the winemaker input: I very much appreciated a winemaker explaining why I should be dropping 25 bucks a bottle on their hooch. I'm still hoping that wine.woot will ship to Georgia again but (I'll be honest) I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not bothering to check very often again either.
This is reminding me a great deal of the problems that Elon Musk is having trying to bring a consumer direct model to cars (yes, this is thread hijacking, but it's my thread and I'll hijack it if I want to). There really isn't any reason why we have huge car dealerships, with an insanely high inventory cost currently. However, auto dealerships not only contribute heavily to local politicians, they pay large amounts of property taxes (need big parking lots for all those cars), sales taxes, and have big payrolls, so they are fighting (successfully in many states) any move to disintermediate them.
The wine people seemed nice. Go back and drag them over here.
I think wine was the third site. Woot. Shirt. Wine.
Amazon has much thinner skin than classic Woot. They would see that as rabble rousing and respond with unnecessary drama.
as for timing, it was: Woot (summer 2004). Wine (summer 2006). Shirt (fall 2007).
A couple of weeks ago, I found an advertisement in the paper or in a junk mail flyer for nakedwines.com. It had a coupon code for $50 credit and free shipping on first order (normal shipping is free over $100 and $9.99 for under and you must order in six bottle increments.) There was/is a groupon available for them.
They have an "Angel" program that supports small winemakers and gives the angel a discount on wine purchased, but you can read more about it on their site. It seems that they have a pretty active community, at least in the reviews of the wines and have the availability to create your own discussion groups. Again details available on the site.
My personal experience: My first order cost me just under $4 with the $50 credit (I signed up for the Angel program to receive additional discounts.) For whatever reason, a mistake or just good marketing, they sent me a follow up email with an additional $40 credit. I've liked the wine tasted so far. I used the $40 credit yesterday and another 6 bottles are on the way. Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but it's new to me and I thought I'd share.
Edit: They also look like they ship to GA.
various googling leads one to see evidence that they got (possibly too) aggressive on a subscription element (likely the "angel" program).
yea, Naked, Zagat, WSJ and others are in full customer acquisition mode. be prepared to be bombarded with communication from all sides.
Haven't signed up, but I had bookmarked Club W, which is a subscription based service with a nice interface and suggestions on food pairings on each wine detail page.
i think Club W, while attractive looking, will have difficulty delivering quality at the price point they have cornered themselves into.
@mrmeh would like Club W's recommendation questions...
you are correct, oh honorabl one
My now 7 year old company, The Wine Spies, began selling wine online in 1997. We were just behind wine.woot with our own launch. I am very happy to be in such great company with @winedavid49 who continues to fight the good fight for wine consumers.
I do cry myself to sleep, some nights, when I think about all of the places that we can't ship but am grateful for those where I can still legally ship. With the efforts of organizations like the American Wine Consumer Coalition, we hope to one day be able to ship to all US consumers. Until then, I've stocked up on tissues.
We have seen plenty of marketers and wine-sellers come and go in the online wine space. Most fail rather quickly. This is due in part to their lack of wine industry relationships (and credibility) needed to tap the already scarce supply of wine. That, and the regulatory barriers prove too difficult (and expensive!) to navigate. Especially if these companies wish to stay fully compliant with the myriad state and federal laws that govern wine sales.
A few months back, I had a rather stimulating phone call with @snapster, who all but told me that he'd be staying well away from the wine business. Maybe he's smarter than me, but I'm in this for the long haul. I love hunting for great wines - and making them available to my customers on an albeit state-limited basis.
And, no... I cannot ship to the great state of Georgia. #sigh
@AgentRed thanks for contributing - good to have your perspective.
the tired industry joke @winedavid49 shared with me years ago is:
Q: How do you make a million bucks in the wine industry?
A: [spoiler]Start with 2 million.[/spoiler]
My take is that I'd very much love to sell wine again, but I need an audience first. Building an online audience by selling wine requires a level of disruption the industry has yet see. In my opinion, the primary hold up is actually the simple fact that wine is heavy and expensive to ship.
We never got that far in our conversation, @snapster, but I do have 'that level of disruption' all mapped out - and am working on it. I'll invite you behind the curtain... when the time is right.